Question
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U.S. Government
OBAMA TURNS FDR UPSIDE DOWN
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has a bad idea for extending the life of Social Security, says Lawrence B. Lindsey, president and CEO of the Lindsey Group, and author of "What a President Should Know . . . But Most Learn Too Late."
Since Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR) created Social Security, the system has always been based on the principle that as workers' wages rise, so do the taxes they pay, and so do the benefits they will get from the system. Sen. Obama would do away with this principle by requiring higher-end workers to pay taxes without getting any extra benefits linked to their higher contributions. This would be a big step toward turning Social Security from a contributory pension scheme into just another welfare program, says Lindsey.
According to Sen. Obama\'s tax plan:
He would apply the Social Security tax to incomes above $250,000, in addition to the current tax on incomes up to $102,000.
On incomes over $250,000, he would also impose a 4.6 percentage point hike in the personal income tax rate, a loss of some itemized deductions, and a 12.4 percentage point hike in the Social Security payroll tax.
A high-income entrepreneur would see his or her federal marginal tax rate rise to 53 percent from the current rate of 37.7 percent; a rate higher than during the disastrous economic years under Jimmy Carter, when the maximum tax on an entrepreneur was 50 percent.
The after-tax profits of an entrepreneur earning $500,000 would be reduced by $70,000 -- $56,000 in lost profits and $14,000 more in taxes -- just to produce a net revenue gain to the government of $14,000.
The private sector would be made $5 poorer in order to make the government $1 richer.
The calculated political design of the proposal indicates that what is really on offer is not some post partisan approach to politics, but rather a Democratic candidate far to the left of Bill Clinton, says Lindsey.
Source: Lawrence B. Lindsey, "Obama Turns FDR Upside Down," Wall Street Journal, June 20, 2008.
For text:
http://online.wsj.com/article...
For more on Welfare Issues:
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has a bad idea for extending the life of Social Security, says Lawrence B. Lindsey, president and CEO of the Lindsey Group, and author of "What a President Should Know . . . But Most Learn Too Late."
Since Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR) created Social Security, the system has always been based on the principle that as workers' wages rise, so do the taxes they pay, and so do the benefits they will get from the system. Sen. Obama would do away with this principle by requiring higher-end workers to pay taxes without getting any extra benefits linked to their higher contributions. This would be a big step toward turning Social Security from a contributory pension scheme into just another welfare program, says Lindsey.
According to Sen. Obama\'s tax plan:
He would apply the Social Security tax to incomes above $250,000, in addition to the current tax on incomes up to $102,000.
On incomes over $250,000, he would also impose a 4.6 percentage point hike in the personal income tax rate, a loss of some itemized deductions, and a 12.4 percentage point hike in the Social Security payroll tax.
A high-income entrepreneur would see his or her federal marginal tax rate rise to 53 percent from the current rate of 37.7 percent; a rate higher than during the disastrous economic years under Jimmy Carter, when the maximum tax on an entrepreneur was 50 percent.
The after-tax profits of an entrepreneur earning $500,000 would be reduced by $70,000 -- $56,000 in lost profits and $14,000 more in taxes -- just to produce a net revenue gain to the government of $14,000.
The private sector would be made $5 poorer in order to make the government $1 richer.
The calculated political design of the proposal indicates that what is really on offer is not some post partisan approach to politics, but rather a Democratic candidate far to the left of Bill Clinton, says Lindsey.
Source: Lawrence B. Lindsey, "Obama Turns FDR Upside Down," Wall Street Journal, June 20, 2008.
For text:
http://online.wsj.com/article...
For more on Welfare Issues:
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd
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Answered This will make things even worse
As I understand it Obama wants to turn the USA into a giant welfare state.
Why would anyone work, open a business or do anything to improve his or her life? When they could stay home and live off a government handout like welfare?
A word about Social Security.
FDR started it as a sort of savings account for when citizens got old and could not work. Most of the people receiving SS worked and paid into the program like a savings account. It is not a handout, most people never live long enough to collect ALL the money they paid into it.
Congress decided to rob the SS account and put it in a general fund. Until then SS had enough money in it to support it’s self without additional taxes. -
Answered This will make things even worse
That's a democrat for you. Continually take money from the wealthy to give to the poor. At the rate they want to take there won't be any more wealthy to take from. What an incentive for children to seek out a higher education for a better paying job all so they can support everyone else. -
Answered We have to save it somehow
How about we CUT WASTEFUL SPENDING before we start taxing more.
Let's shrink the government and it's bloated bureaucracy.
Why is the bureaucracy bloated?
Take a guess at who is the # 1 lobby in terms of money spent. It's not Big Oil, drug companies, the NRA or AIPAC. It's the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employee or AFSCME.
Anyone surprised? -
Answered None of the above
The country is bankrupt. But hey why should I care as long as I can still afford to buy more stuff for myself. This seems to be the prevailing mentality of people who argue that we should not raise taxes. Fact Middle class wages have not kept up with the cost of living. If you make 500K per year You are rich. Most of the wealthy make use of public infrastructure roads bridges ect. to earn their wealth. They place a higher tax on the public system and should in turn pay higher taxes. Yet the wealthy pay huge sums of money to elect people who will change the tax laws so they can keep more of their money. It's just plain wrong. A majority of people with nothing to benefit from tax breaks for the wealthy support these tax breaks because they have been tricked. The information provided above is distorted and twisted to make an argument.
Look into the facts people and you will see that rich people calling themselves patriots are investing those tax savings in other countries now because they can get a better return on their investment. If the USA ever went bankrupt. They, "the rich" would just leave and we would be left with the polluted roads they used to sell us their goods. Roads we paid for so they could use them. They would leave us hear and go anywhere as long as they can keep their money. That's what I call patriotism. Watch you pockets folks they will really take your last dollar. That is if it will save them from paying taxes. -
Oh, let's crucify the rich.
Let's ignore the fact that they pay most of the taxes in this country. Let's punish them for working hard and taking risks or just plain being lucky. How dare they!
While we're doing that, let's ignore the fact that the government throw Billions down the toilet on inefficient, bloated bureaucracies and pork barrel projects. More billions are spent keeping the poor subsidized and complacent. (most Public Housing occupants, Welfare & Food Stamp recipients are white, so this is NOT a racist remark)
The problem is the attitude that if you need more money, simply tax the rich. It's like you overspending and instead of looking at which extravagances you should cut or curtail, you go to your boss and demand more money. Not for doing a good job, but just because you want it.
BTW: Regarding these roads you're obsessed with; since the rich pay most of the taxes in this country, they therefor DO PAY for these roads, not the poor who pay little to no taxes. -
let's not crucify anyone.... poor people are not going to help our country get out of debt. and while I might not agree with all the programs that are in place to as you say, subsidize the poor, the reality is that we are at war and we are not doing anything at home to pay for it. better education is not subsidizing the poor. it is investment in the future more opportunity less crime. we spend money keeping people fed and we do nothing to help them become self sufficient.
There are so many ways we could come together to solve the problem, but it starts with everyone at the table saying "ok we have big bill to pay... who's got money. " point fingers all you want at the waste in government. It was a republican run congress with a republican president that turned a surplus into a deficit, for the record. i am not poor and i am willing to pay my share. i don't have children, but sisters do and I hope the grow up in a country that offers the same opportunities I had.
Argue the merits of the programs you think should be cut from our governments spending out in the open. Not by cutting taxes and bankrupting the country. Let's get the spending under control and stop loading our mistakes on the backs or future generations.
This has nothing to do with Obama or McCain. It has to do with we the people demanding a more intelligent balanced budget. Programs for the poor do not out way the wasteful spending on the military or other pork barrel projects that rich people keep slipping ...let's not crucify anyone.... poor people are not going to help our country get out of debt. and while I might not agree with all the programs that are in place to as you say, subsidize the poor, the reality is that we are at war and we are not doing anything at home to pay for it. better education is not subsidizing the poor. it is investment in the future more opportunity less crime. we spend money keeping people fed and we do nothing to help them become self sufficient.
There are so many ways we could come together to solve the problem, but it starts with everyone at the table saying "ok we have big bill to pay... who's got money. " point fingers all you want at the waste in government. It was a republican run congress with a republican president that turned a surplus into a deficit, for the record. i am not poor and i am willing to pay my share. i don't have children, but sisters do and I hope the grow up in a country that offers the same opportunities I had.
Argue the merits of the programs you think should be cut from our governments spending out in the open. Not by cutting taxes and bankrupting the country. Let's get the spending under control and stop loading our mistakes on the backs or future generations.
This has nothing to do with Obama or McCain. It has to do with we the people demanding a more intelligent balanced budget. Programs for the poor do not out way the wasteful spending on the military or other pork barrel projects that rich people keep slipping into legislation.
Before we cut the poor off, which in the long run would lead to more crime and ultimately tax our systems.. not just our roads. We should focus our attention on all the waste that is benefiting people who are in collusion with the policy makers. Such as the drug lobby that wrote the medicare prescription drug bill, or the oil people who wrote the Enron loophole legislation that is driving up the price of oil.
Rich people should be less angry about having to give something back. They have something to give...(less) -
I love how you said "It was a republican run congress with a republican president that turned a surplus into a deficit" then a few paragraphs later said "This has nothing to do with Obama or McCain." (I never said it did)
This problem is bipartisan. Dems as well as Reps are to blame. When there is a surplus Congress wants to spend it. The problem is that they spend the one time surplus on programs that are a constant drain.
It's like me getting a $100 bonus and then turning around and leasing something that is $100 a month. That's how our government does things.
By the way, you left out the unions who bloat the government bureaucracies and programs. Labor unions far outspend oil and drug companies in lobbying.
Here is a list of the top 10 lobbies and how much they've spent since 1989
American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $39,392,153
AT&T Inc $39,065,076
National Assn of Realtors $32,336,506
American Assn for Justice $28,727,389
Goldman Sachs $28,701,957
Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $27,898,934
National Education Assn $27,713,779
Laborers Union $26,503,339
Service Employees International Union $25,931,093
Carpenters & Joiners Union $25,627,582
http://www.opensecrets.org/or...
Notice who's NOT there? (hint; the perennial bad guys. Oil and drug companies) Notice who's # 1? Notice which lobbies dominate that list?
For a more complete picture look at the top 100 at http://www.opensecrets.org/or...
labor unions dominate throughout...I love how you said "It was a republican run congress with a republican president that turned a surplus into a deficit" then a few paragraphs later said "This has nothing to do with Obama or McCain." (I never said it did)
This problem is bipartisan. Dems as well as Reps are to blame. When there is a surplus Congress wants to spend it. The problem is that they spend the one time surplus on programs that are a constant drain.
It's like me getting a $100 bonus and then turning around and leasing something that is $100 a month. That's how our government does things.
By the way, you left out the unions who bloat the government bureaucracies and programs. Labor unions far outspend oil and drug companies in lobbying.
Here is a list of the top 10 lobbies and how much they've spent since 1989
American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $39,392,153
AT&T Inc $39,065,076
National Assn of Realtors $32,336,506
American Assn for Justice $28,727,389
Goldman Sachs $28,701,957
Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $27,898,934
National Education Assn $27,713,779
Laborers Union $26,503,339
Service Employees International Union $25,931,093
Carpenters & Joiners Union $25,627,582
http://www.opensecrets.org/or...
Notice who's NOT there? (hint; the perennial bad guys. Oil and drug companies) Notice who's # 1? Notice which lobbies dominate that list?
For a more complete picture look at the top 100 at http://www.opensecrets.org/or...
labor unions dominate throughout and most of them leen towards the Dems.(less) -
Well this post as all that talk about raising taxes seem to be singularly focused on one theme. Dems Bad Republicans good...
Here's another list from your web site. Plenty of Oil and Pharma companies on the list. Read the buying of the president. I'll agree that unions are not helping.
I also agree we are spending too much money as a country. Let's get out of the nation building business and focus on our own country.
Unions back the Dems. Oil Gas and Tobacco were the top donors for Bush. But back to the point. Tax the rich? Cut spending? Do you support the war? I never have, yet my tax dollars are going to pay for that war. Perhaps you don't agree with social programs. OK so you have to pay for a few things that you did not want to pay for.
I think we both agree we need a congress that will get off it's ass and do something about the red ink, and raising taxes is not the only way that can be done.
But cutting taxes is before we cut spending is a practice we have to stop. I am all for open debate and a democratic process to get the spending down, but in the mean time, cutting taxes is just putting the money on to future generations.
Lobbying Client Total
US Chamber of Commerce $384,414,680
American Medical Assn $184,147,500
General Electric $167,270,000
American Hospital Assn $148,249,299
AARP $134,012,064
Pharmaceutical Rsrch & Mfrs of America $130,643,400
Edison Electric Institute $118,222,628
Northrop Grumman $109,875,253
Business Roundtable $109,070,000
National A...Well this post as all that talk about raising taxes seem to be singularly focused on one theme. Dems Bad Republicans good...
Here's another list from your web site. Plenty of Oil and Pharma companies on the list. Read the buying of the president. I'll agree that unions are not helping.
I also agree we are spending too much money as a country. Let's get out of the nation building business and focus on our own country.
Unions back the Dems. Oil Gas and Tobacco were the top donors for Bush. But back to the point. Tax the rich? Cut spending? Do you support the war? I never have, yet my tax dollars are going to pay for that war. Perhaps you don't agree with social programs. OK so you have to pay for a few things that you did not want to pay for.
I think we both agree we need a congress that will get off it's ass and do something about the red ink, and raising taxes is not the only way that can be done.
But cutting taxes is before we cut spending is a practice we have to stop. I am all for open debate and a democratic process to get the spending down, but in the mean time, cutting taxes is just putting the money on to future generations.
Lobbying Client Total
US Chamber of Commerce $384,414,680
American Medical Assn $184,147,500
General Electric $167,270,000
American Hospital Assn $148,249,299
AARP $134,012,064
Pharmaceutical Rsrch & Mfrs of America $130,643,400
Edison Electric Institute $118,222,628
Northrop Grumman $109,875,253
Business Roundtable $109,070,000
National Assn of Realtors $104,190,380
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $96,521,172
Freddie Mac $92,564,048
Boeing Co $89,378,310
General Motors $89,170,483
Lockheed Martin $86,731,735
Exxon Mobil $85,086,942
Verizon Communications $84,205,610
Southern Co $83,480,694
SBC Communications $79,851,656
Fannie Mae $77,967,000(less) -
Geez. The docs and old folks spend more than the combined Phramas which is $55 mil more than the first big oil on the list.
If you don't like what your tax $ are spent on, too bad. I don't either, but we keep on electing the same types that are presented to us by the same people again and again.
Bottom line; cut the fat before you start hiking my tax. -
Answered This will make things even worse
So let me get this right here. Raise the taxes on the folks that are creating the jobs? Penalize the high acheivers? Take my money and give it to someone else? Yep, this sure is Change and now we are all getting a real look at just what his idea of Change is.
Want to change Social Security? How about quit giving it to folks that have NOT paid into it or quit using it for something other than Social Security. Stop the theivery within the system. -
Answered This will make things even worse
This is exactly what I remind people of when they say, "oh, but Obama will lower my taxes!"
Entrepreneurs are the lifeblood of the country. They are what creates new jobs, and in most cases, if they make a lot of money, it's because they work for it. It's purely selfish thinking to want to tax the crap out of those richer than you so you can save a few pennies. They already pay way more than the rest.
All this will lead to is the rich business owners having less money with which to hire the poor or middle class. -
Hello......... Any Obamaholics listening??
Or, are you JUST TOO DARN excited about all the "CHANGE" he is going to bring and save the world with!!
Hold onto your hats the Messiah is coming to save you.
Oh by the way, really hold onto your hat, because you probably won't be able to afford another one with all the promises and programs that you are being wooed by!!!
Wake up people!! -
Answered This will make things even worse
This man becomes more of a joke everyday... Lets see, tax the hell out of the small businesses who in turn let go half their staff to be able to afford to make it themselves, and this is good for the average American worker. I just don't see it.. Welcome to a world of the homeless if he gets in... -
Answered This will make things even worse
Even JFK knew to encourage growth in America Tax Cuts were needed.
over 12 percent of our taxes go to Social Security. Like to guess what part of that 'voluntary contribution' you will get back at retirement ?
Even JFK knew to encourage growth in America Tax Cuts were needed.
over 12 percent of our taxes go to Social Security. Like to guess what part of that 'voluntary contribution' you will get back at retirement ?
(less) -
Answered We trust Obama
Our grandparents and parents made sacrifices post-WW I and II, and we should be prepared to make sacrifices to lift up our nation. We should be condemning the waste of trillions of tax dollars that went into the deceitful Iraq war that has not made Americans safer... 4108 dead Americans and thousands and thousands maimed, and Bin Laden is still a free man, enriched with poppyfields. -
yes. and many including myself do not mind sacrificing for the better of America. Congress [House and Senate] has Not shown the willingness to sacrifice like they want us to sacrifice. Whatever happened to Lead by Example.??
Is your Representative in Congress or the Senate willing to cut their salary in half to aid America?
I wager they would be insulted if asked that they 'bear our pain', They prefer saying 'they feel our pain'.
Answered This will make things even worse
For those who think taxes are the answer. lets say you get paid 10 dollars to mow a lawn, and as soon as you see the bill, the guy paying you, takes out ten ones, gives you two, then takes the rest and give one to the kid who laugh at you mowing, and two to the homeless guy. one to the mailman, one in his own pocket, and mailed the rest to save the whales or something. this is obama's plan.... So all you voting for him, kiss your money good bye. I hope you don't actully own anything of any worth