Question
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General Religion & Beliefs
How can some or most Christians post, write, or say they respect people with an Atheistic belief or just their belief alone, when Psalms 14:1 states, "The fool said in his heart, 'There is no god.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."? Because to be a 1) a fool, is degrading, 2) corrupt, is a sin, and 3) vile, is also a sin. So, wouldn't you saying or posting that you respect my views/belief or me as a person (since I am an Atheist) be going against God's word? And to do that is wrong on its own. I see we've faced a dilemma. Well not me, cause it makes me stronger. However, what's your intake?
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Answered I think...
I think that you can (and must) respectfully disagree. Being a five point Calvinist, I understand all too clearly that not all will come to faith in Christ. The truth is, all who proclaim a faith in Christ do not have a saving faith in Christ. I stand firm on mine, and I understand that a devout athesit, Muslim, etc... stand equally firm on theirs.
I will profess my faith. I can't force anybody else to buy into it. I have to be wise and mature enough to understand this. -
Answered I think...
Just because the Bible says "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God,'" that doesn't mean we Christians are supposed to run around calling nonbelievers fools; it's just an indication of what God thinks of them. God can call anyone anything He likes, but we can't.
Second, in the New Testament, Paul expands that "There is no one who does good" to ALL people, not just unbelievers. He says ALL (that's EVERYONE) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. All have turned away, there is no one righteous, no one. Everyone is a sinner, NOT just nonbelievers. -
Answered I think...
I think I can disagree with their belief (radically) yet respect their RIGHT to have their own beliefs.
I was taught that God gave us all dignity as humans and free will. If He loved us all enough to give us free will, then why disrespect them for choosing to use that gift?
All I can do is hope they will respond to His grace someday and love them in the meantime as a child of God (even if they don't believe that they are). -
I tend to agree with him in a sense, Chilton.
I'm a Calvinist, and as such, I believe it is impossible for anyone to choose Christ or God unless God chooses them first. I believe we're slaves to sin and completely depraved, unable to do good or choose God. It is only after God breathes life into us and opens our eyes that we can accept Christ...
I guess my best way to explain it is we are not drowning men who are thrown a life preserver and choose whether or not to accept it (God is out there and we either accept or reject Him), but we are DROWNED men who are already dead, unable to save ourselves or choose to live again... God breathes life into us and saves us that way.
But I am well aware many people disagree with that viewpoint! I don't think you have to think as I do to be considered a Christian. Anyone who confesses with their heart 'Jesus is Lord' and believes in his heart God raised Him from the dead will be saved. Whether you believe in free will or predestination is pretty much irrelevant! -
Well when you explain it that way, we are very much in agreement.
I do believe we only have faith because of the One who called us, through no effort of our own. The Holy Spirit enlightens our souls and we are then able to respond to grace.
CPR? Sounds about right. The Holy Spirit is the breath of Life.
Thanks for clarifying.
Do you think people are truly free to reject God once He has breathed life into them? For example, someone has faith in God, then becomes angry or disillusioned and then rejects God.
If they are saved then that happens...what? -
Yeah, I ascribe to the "once saved, always saved' ideal that the Bible seems to portray, because think about it:
When you become a Christian, you're filled with the Holy Spirit. God changes you completely, transforming your heart, mind, and soul.
How the heck do you untransform what God has done to you? Impossible. God is in control of your life once He changes you. Satan nor any other force can snatch you from God. -
OH NO DOUBT! ALL of us-- saved, unsaved, whatever!-- are sinners until the day we die. Period. We can't help it.
Romans 7:14-20... "We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do... I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing."
If PAUL admitted to being such a slave to sin and he's considered one of the great men of faith, of course the rest of us struggle with (and commit!) sin.
I guess what I was getting at is that saved and unsaved people sin... But once you're truly, actually, fully saved (Holy Spirit transformed), there's no way you can ever get "unsaved" or lose your salvation. You're God's property once that Holy Spirit is in you, and God doesn't let anything that's His get away! -
See just when you wrote 'lose your salvation' it clicked in my head. I absolutely see that and agree. That transformation by the Holy Spirit changes you on a fundamental level.
I think many times different language confuses things between the different faiths.
And our concupiscence leads us to sin (that's our word for it...lol).
Here's a $5 passage:
2515 Etymologically, "concupiscence" can refer to any intense form of human desire. Christian theology has given it a particular meaning: the movement of the sensitive appetite contrary to the operation of the human reason. The apostle St. Paul identifies it with the rebellion of the "flesh" against the "spirit." Concupiscence stems from the disobedience of the first sin. It unsettles man's moral faculties and, without being in itself an offense, inclines man to commit sins. -
Answered I think...
Some are meek in they're faith and say such things to mask their vulnerability because they don't realize the difference between respect for a person and exceptance of their beliefs. Sometimes we have to work with what's put in front of us. We don't have to like it.
note: when I say respect I'm referring to common courtesy -
Answered I think...
The definition of a Christian varies among people & groups. There is no group who follows the bible to the letter or we would have alot of goat sacrifices, alot less Red Lobster's and much eye for an eye retribution in the name of Christianity. People take some scriptures literally and will quote you to death to justify their way of thinking, yet will ignore others and say it really means something else or was lost in translation somewhere along the way. There is contradiction in the bible. Some people choose to gain from their belief in Jesus, his teachings that are based in love and understanding. For me, believing also means understanding that I don't have all the answers and it is not my place to judge or condemn. I chose to believe what I believe, had I been born somewhere else, to a different family in another time my beliefs could be very different. My faith taught me that Jesus judges the heart of each person individually and that it is by the mercy of Christ that people are saved, even if they may not realize it at the moment of death. So to me, what you do or don't believe is between you and God. I respect your right to believe what you do, I don't have to agree. I can respect you as a person yet disagree with some of your beliefs, whether they are religious, political or something as mundane as you believe that wearing socks with sandals is fashionable. But that is my take on it. There are many Christians that believe that as a Catholic I am not "born again" and...The definition of a Christian varies among people & groups. There is no group who follows the bible to the letter or we would have alot of goat sacrifices, alot less Red Lobster's and much eye for an eye retribution in the name of Christianity. People take some scriptures literally and will quote you to death to justify their way of thinking, yet will ignore others and say it really means something else or was lost in translation somewhere along the way. There is contradiction in the bible. Some people choose to gain from their belief in Jesus, his teachings that are based in love and understanding. For me, believing also means understanding that I don't have all the answers and it is not my place to judge or condemn. I chose to believe what I believe, had I been born somewhere else, to a different family in another time my beliefs could be very different. My faith taught me that Jesus judges the heart of each person individually and that it is by the mercy of Christ that people are saved, even if they may not realize it at the moment of death. So to me, what you do or don't believe is between you and God. I respect your right to believe what you do, I don't have to agree. I can respect you as a person yet disagree with some of your beliefs, whether they are religious, political or something as mundane as you believe that wearing socks with sandals is fashionable. But that is my take on it. There are many Christians that believe that as a Catholic I am not "born again" and therefore going right to hell, well, if that is true I guess I will be in good company!(less)
Answered I think...
I think I can disagree with their belief (radically) yet respect their RIGHT to have their own beliefs.I was taught that God gave us all dignity as humans and free will. If He loved us all enough to give us free will, then why disrespect them for choosing to use that gift?
All I can do is hope they will respond to His grace someday and love them in the meantime as a child of God (even if they don't believe that they are).