Question U.S. Government

Do you see this as a continuation of a bad Bush idea? Obama to expand Bush's faith based programs?

raves +10   by Headhunter 13
Obama to expand Bush's faith based programs By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer
7 minutes ago



CHICAGO - Reaching out to evangelical voters, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is announcing plans to expand President Bush's program steering federal social service dollars to religious groups and — in a move sure to cause controversy — support some ability to hire and fire based on faith.

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Obama was unveiling his approach to getting religious charities more involved in government anti-poverty programs during a tour and remarks Tuesday in Zanesville, Ohio, at Eastside Community Ministry, which provides food, clothes, youth ministry and other services.

"The challenges we face today ... are simply too big for government to solve alone," Obama was to say, according to a prepared text of his remarks obtained by The Associated Press. "We need all hands on deck."

Obama's announcement is part of a series of events leading up to Friday's Fourth of July holiday that are focused on American values.

The Democratic presidential candidate spent Monday talking about his vision of patriotism in the battleground state of Missouri. By twinning that with Tuesday's talk about faith in another battleground state, he was attempting to settle debate in two key areas where his beliefs have come under question while also trying to make inroads with constituencies that are traditionally loyal to Republicans and oppose Obama on other grounds.

But Obama's support for letting religious charities that receive federal funding consider religion in employment decisions could invite a protest from those in his own party who view such faith requirements as discrimination.

Obama does not support requiring religious tests for recipients of aid nor using federal money to proselytize, according to a campaign fact sheet. He also only supports letting religious institutions hire and fire based on faith in the non-taxypayer funded portions of their activities, said a senior adviser to the campaign, who spoke on condition of anonymity to more freely describe the new policy.

Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, criticized Obama's proposed expansion of a program he said has undermined civil rights and civil liberties.

"I am disappointed that any presidential candidate would want to continue a failed policy of the Bush administration," he said. "It ought to be shut down, not continued."

Bush supports broader freedoms for taxpayer-funded religious charities. But he never got Congress to go along so he has conducted the program through administrative actions and executive orders.

David Kuo, a conservative Christian who was deputy director of Bush's Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives until 2003 and later became a critic of Bush's commitment to the cause, said Obama's position on hiring has the potential to be a major "Sister Souljah moment" for his campaign.

This is a reference to Bill Clinton's accusation in his 1992 presidential campaign that the hip hop artist incited violence against whites. Because Clinton said this before a black audience, it fed into an image of him as a bold politician who was willing to take risks and refused to pander.

"This is a massive deal," said Kuo, who is not an Obama adviser or supporter but was contacted by the campaign to review the new plan.

Obama proposes to elevate the program to a "moral center" of his administration, by renaming it the Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, and changing training from occasional huge conferences to empowering larger religious charities to mentor smaller ones in their communities.

Saying social service spending has been shortchanged under Bush, he also proposes a $500 million per year program to provide summer learning for 1 million poor children to help close achievement gaps with white and wealthier students. A campaign fact sheet said he would pay for it by better managing surplus federal properties, reducing growth in the federal travel budget and streamlining the federal procurement process.

Like Bush, Obama was arguing that religious organizations can and should play a bigger role in serving the poor and meeting other social needs. But while Bush argued that the strength of religious charities lies primarily in shared religious identity between workers and recipients, Obama was to tout the benefits of their "bottom-up" approach.

"Because they're so close to the people, they're well-placed to offer help," he was to say.

Kuo called Obama's approach smart, impressive and well thought-out but took a wait-and-see attitude about whether it would deliver.

"When it comes to promises to help the poor, promises are easy," said Kuo, who wrote a 2006 book describing his frustration at what he called Bush's lackluster enthusiasm for the program. "The question is commitment."

Obama also planned to talk bluntly about the genesis of his Christian faith in his work as a community organizer in Chicago, and its importance to him now.

"In time, I came to see faith as being both a personal commitment to Christ and a commitment to my community; that while I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work," he was to say.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080701/ap_on_el_pr/obama_faith
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Top Comment
raves +10   by JDC cross carrier

Answered None of the above

I guess this would make him Obusha, the next thing you know he'll be more conservative than a radio talk show host and be Orusha just to pander to the masses.
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Sort By: Raves | Date 1 2 Next » Last » Comments
  • raves +1   [-] by .....

    Answered Yes and it is pandering to the Evangelicals

    Why do people insist that we need some sort of theocracy to have morality?
  • raves +1   [-] by Headhunter 13
    I think it is because if they didn't fear punishment by their god then they believe they would be less moral and less prone to do bad. I see them as very weak people
  • raves +1   [-] by .....
    Then, they're not moral, but selfish. I do the right thing because it's the right thing. Not because of some make believe fantasy world of reward or punishment.
  • raves +1   [-] by Headhunter 13
    that is a point of fact and evolution that they fail to grasp. A religion or belief system or made up god does not imbue a person, society or culture with any moral standing at all. Except for One god thing and probably the Adultory line all the other so called 10 comandment were in palce in one form or another for a very long time possibly some going back unspoken but understood for millions of years of evolution.
  • raves +1   [-] by .....
    They sure need that myth though. I guess some sh*t is too scary.
  • raves +1   [-] by Headhunter 13
    like reality and truth
  • raves     [-] by .....
    Death. That's what scares them. They lie to themselves about the delusion of significance, so they won't be so afraid to die.
  • raves +1   [-] by Headhunter 13
    so true and real. LOL
  • raves +2   [-] by Donald

    Answered None of the above

    Faith was the first charity but was taken over by the US government in an effort to seperate the government from the people in the name of freedom. Politicians said it was an effort to seperate church and state, but it was state and people that remain divided. Obama wants to continue that effort in an effort to gain votes. He has no more faith than a turtle.
  • raves +1   [-] by Headhunter 13
    faith is a religious delusion used to control and bully
  • raves +1   [-] by Jamie (goofygirl)

    Answered None of the above

    I cannot understand what he stands for. I have no idea who he really is. I will not pretend to be anything but 100% for the faith based initiatives, I have ssen them work, so I like that he will support them, but will he? I just do not know where he is.
  • raves +2   [-] by Headhunter 13
    Sorry but I have to disagree. They do not work for the US citizens in general. Plus it is plainly a violation of the separation between chruch and state. As soon as the start giving them to Islamic, VooDoo, Wiccan, Buddist, etc groups then I may start to reconsider. The group that get these funds are discriminatory in my opinion. How many reach out to people not of the sect
  • raves +1   [-] by Jamie (goofygirl)
    I understand your take in it, however, the Fatih Based Initiatives have very strict policies that prevent the churches from making the events about fatih or spreading the word of God during these events. Also, this is open to any organization including the ones you listed, there is no money set aside for "chrisitan" groups. The government does not ask if you believe in God, you need to have an organization that is currently reaching out and helping people, so all groups are eligible.
  • raves +2   [-] by Headhunter 13
    That is not what I have seen or been told. Also the new version by Obama would allow hiring discrimination based on religion in the organizations. And face it we all know that happens anyway. Separation (total separation) of Church and state and TAX the churches since they want to run like corporation and are interested in profits
  • raves     [-] by Jamie (goofygirl)
    Hopefully we will not see any of that happen:-) I believe many will see that he is just an empty shell full of people that run him.
  • raves     [-] by Headhunter 13
    but he is now expressing teh type of policy that bush implemented and that you agree with
  • raves +1   [-] by Donnie

    Answered Undecided

    one nut after onther i hope not
  • raves +1   [-] by john conner

    Answered None of the above

    Best thought he has had! Exand it! (I am for McCain). I hope he says he will expand it as well ( If he has not said so yet.
  • raves +1   [-] by Headhunter 13
    Really and then allow them to discriminate in hiring by religion or should we fund all religious iniatives equally. I guess you think we should?
  • raves +2   [-] by Annie

    Answered None of the above

    What will he say next? Does this man really stand for anything at all?
  • raves +1   [-] by Saoirse ~ STPS for OBAMA

    Answered Undecided

    I think to some degree it is pandering to the Evangelicals and I do not think it is a good idea to expand on any of Bush's policies. I do think this article is somewhat biased after hearing it explained and discussed on the news. However, short of increasing social programs substantially..the thought that has already gotten a lot of people's panties in a wad by naively equating social programs with Communism, the religious groups have helped in ways the government hasn't. Churches are very good at assisting in disasters and helping the poor on a regular basis. Most of the homeless shelters, soup kitchens, homes for abused women and children, etc. are run and sponsored by churches. This saves the government a lot of money by not having to build all these facilities, staff them, and pay to run them. I don't think it's a bad thing if the government kick in a few bucks towards the programs.

    I am very much for the separation of church and state..but I don't think this is something that infringes on that right.
  • raves +3   [-] by Headhunter 13
    from what I have heard and read these are not the type of programs that you mention such as disater recovery but for educational programs and schooling. I may be wrong but if it is not for charity and aid groups without an aganda for the prostylization of a faith, Then fine. What disturbs me more the the institutionalized hiring discrimination by religion he wants to allow.
  • raves     [-] by Saoirse ~ STPS for OBAMA
    I don't know that I fully understand what type of organizations these are. Can you explain that...I can't find anything? And I am not understanding how these organizations could have a huge impact on hiring processes. Can you give an example? If it's for instance to run a public after school program....then the hiring processes would be discriminatory. I would have to know some examples.
  • raves +2   [-] by Headhunter 13
    from what I have read the Obamanitions concept is that if it is a Christian group be it a charity or and educational program they can deny any employment that does not meet their criteria of belief or even is they are say a different sect of Christian or a Muslim or an Atheist. Discrimination based on religious belief plain and simple. I have heard that any program supported this way are heavy into prostylization. Hey you want our help come to our faith and church
  • raves +1   [-] by Saoirse ~ STPS for OBAMA
    Thanks! In that case....the government has no business being involved with such programs.
  • raves +2   [-] by Headhunter 13
    The government has no business in any religious funding or support
  • raves +1   [-] by Saoirse ~ STPS for OBAMA
    True!
  • raves +3   [-] by crsone

    Answered None of the above

    Obama has always said he is a man of religion -- this is nothing new, nor is it pandering. But I don't like the idea of expanding faith-based initiatives, if that is really what he means to do. Again, one "bad" idea isn't enough for me to change my vote, but I'm with AUSCS on this one
  • raves +5   [-] by Headhunter 13
    BS he is a man of convenience. He is not an Evangelical and does not share their values. One bad idea? Hell has had ZERO good ideas. He has no idea! Not clue! He is just buying into and expanding a Bush program. Yeah he is different. One more thing that he will not change
  • raves +3   [-] by Greatbear100

    Answered Yes and it is pandering to the Evangelicals

    Obama is saying what people want to hear where ever he is speaking. Does he have a progeam of his own? Is he committed to anything?