Oct 08, 2008 12:51AM GMT
Question
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Politics - United States
Renewable Energy vs Drilling: Which will lower gas prices first?
Few disagree that we should pursue renewable energy. Some argue that we should also pursue drilling (on/off shore) to reduce the dependency on foreign oil (much of which comes from hostile countries) and reduce the price of gas at the pump until we have reliable, affordable clean energy.
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raves posted Nov 09, 2008 06:11PM GMT
Answered None of the above
I've got a 10 kw photovoltaic system (solar panels) on my house. We've had it for over 2 years. We produce about 90% of all the electricity we use annually. If we made some improvements to our home (new windows & insulation) we would likely produce more than we actually use. There's no reason I couldn't use my panels to charge an electric car. Before pumping any more money into drilling, I'd like to see that money spent on renewables. The technology exists - we just need to use it. -
raves posted Nov 06, 2008 04:03PM GMT
Answered None of the above
We need to force Detroit to build smaller, more fuel efficient cars now! Fuel economy was better in the '80's than it is now. General Motors had a perfectly great electric car and they destroyed it! Why do we have to wait for the VOLT that doesn't work?
People need to buy smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. The reduction in demand has already dropped the price of oil. Too bad our economy had to experience the spike which is the cause of this recession/depression just like it was in the '70's!
We need to eliminate the use of fossil fuels over the next 25 years entirely, but in the meantime, conservation is the key. -
raves +1 Nov 03, 2008 09:44PM GMTThat will take too much time to fully analyze in just one comment... I'll list some highlights:
* renewable energy provides clean, environmentally friendly energy
* drilling often (not always) provides cheap energy
* has limited supplies
* renewable energy, by definition, has unlimited resources -
raves +2 Nov 04, 2008 02:20AM GMTJust to give some information on the "time-to-market" aspect, there are biofuel cooperatives popping up all across the nation; these are grassroots organizations that are proving the viability of biofuels. In the time it takes for a crop to mature, the equipment to refine can be setup and functional. Corn is low on the totem pole for production and many permaculturists are utilizing things like cattail that can also serve the purpose of sewage treatment prior to being used for ethanol. Total production costs for these cooperatives are hovering around .97 a gallon; in Brazil where alcohol fuel has been the norm for more than a decade, production costs are less than .50 per gallon. Production of ethanol sequesters more carbon than it emits in total meaning a net reduction in CO2 is a realistic goal.
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raves Nov 05, 2008 01:51AM GMT (edited)Like I said before... :-)
Ethanol production costs about .97-$1.28 per gallon, corn-based ethanol costs $1.40, plus producer profit, etc.
Oil production cost .15 to .60
producer profit .53 to .8
refining cost .13
marketing cost .5
transportation cost .15
retailer cost .6
tax .30 to .60 plus, etc.
Ethanol prod....97 - $1.40
Oil production..15 - .60
USA more industrialized and consume more fuel than Brazil, Mexico, etc. together. Human labor is much cheaper in Brazil, more land than people, etc.
Production of Ethanol will not get cheaper then production of Oil. )
I think we have to use all resources, ethanol, etc., but I don't think that future for cars is Ethanol. More likely fuel cells & electric cars: http://www.sodahead.com/group... , especially when battery technology will get better with nanotech. (the cost of powering the electric vehicle is estimated at $0.02 per mile) -
raves -1 Nov 09, 2008 06:25PM GMT (edited)You keep forgetting the socialized costs of oil production, these are always left out of the equation. In just the last 2 months over 65m taxpayer dollars have been spent building fences around oil fields; these costs are not factored into the true cost of fossil fuels because the oil industry does not shoulder the burden. THE COST OF ETHANOL IS LESS THAN THE COST OF GASOLINE!!! No ifs ands or buts! Look at the cost of producing usable oil from the Canadian Tar Sands; we are facing a similar situation with remaining oil here in the U.S.
The cost of powering an electric vehicle at .02 per mile... How much does it cost in healthcare to treat the cancers caused by sulphur dioxins released while making this electricity? -
raves +1 posted Oct 27, 2008 02:46PM GMT
Answered Renewable Energy will reduce transportation costs first
Even the more optimistic projections on increasing US drilling are that it will take at least 20 years to see it affect prices and even then only by 3-4 cents. Renewable energy will create jobs, make the US a world leader in yet another area, and can help reduce costs in less than 20 years. Turning off lights, driving smarter, and other conservation activities can help even faster. -
raves Nov 03, 2008 09:50PM GMTI don't think the more optimistic project that it will take 20 years and only change prices by 3-4 cents.
Anti-drilling activist of Environment Florida Holly Bins said "It would take anywhere from seven to 10 years to bring those resources to shore -- to have any measurable impact on supply." -
raves Nov 09, 2008 06:27PM GMTThe problem with the impact on supply is that it is the proverbial drop in the bucket. There isn't enough oil in the United States to have production keep up with demand we peaked in 1970 and we've been drilling ever since yet production continues to decline; the oil isn't here!!!
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raves +1 posted Oct 26, 2008 12:21PM GMT
Answered Drilling will reduce transportation costs first
"Renewable Energy will reduce energy costs 1st'? How? Is Obama gonna buy your gas propelled car? Are container ships on the sea gonna get replaced overnight? Are Jet Aircraft gonna just soar? The Teamsters are gonna get knew battery oprerated trucks right before the inaguration? Lol.....& by the way for those un-informed we ARE drilling! I sell machine Tools for a living & if it were not for that with the economy in a slide I would be hard pressed! Sales are up and due to a huge surge in oil tool needs! So for those worried about the drilling.....don't drive/fly or buy anything that got to the retailer by ship then or truck.......lol....Yup that'll fix it!
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raves +1 Oct 26, 2008 03:42PM GMTObama doesn't need to buy your gas propelled car; you can still use it yourself just run it on ethyl alcohol. The teamsters can still run their trucks on biofuels as well. Jetfuels can quite easily be produced biologically as well; the internal combustion engines actually see reduced maintenance and extended lifespans due to the fact that biofuels contain much fewer contaminants that result in carbon buildup inside the motor.
Biofuels are less expensive and energy intensive to produce than oil, and we don't have to invade other countries to get it; ever heard of someone killing someone else over cattails?
Ethanol causing food shortages is a myth; simply a lie propagated by oil interests to protect their interests. Properly executed, ethanol production can actually produce MORE food, as much as 1.4 times more when the resultant mash of production is used as feedstock. Livestock aren't able to digest the raw materials as readily as the matter in the wort, which is still full of the nutrients but further broken down. This year more than 20% of our corn crops went unused; in spite of food shortages around the world, many countries will not accept our corn because it is GMO and they do not consider it fit for human consumption.
Cattails actually produce more ethanol per...Obama doesn't need to buy your gas propelled car; you can still use it yourself just run it on ethyl alcohol. The teamsters can still run their trucks on biofuels as well. Jetfuels can quite easily be produced biologically as well; the internal combustion engines actually see reduced maintenance and extended lifespans due to the fact that biofuels contain much fewer contaminants that result in carbon buildup inside the motor.
Biofuels are less expensive and energy intensive to produce than oil, and we don't have to invade other countries to get it; ever heard of someone killing someone else over cattails?
Ethanol causing food shortages is a myth; simply a lie propagated by oil interests to protect their interests. Properly executed, ethanol production can actually produce MORE food, as much as 1.4 times more when the resultant mash of production is used as feedstock. Livestock aren't able to digest the raw materials as readily as the matter in the wort, which is still full of the nutrients but further broken down. This year more than 20% of our corn crops went unused; in spite of food shortages around the world, many countries will not accept our corn because it is GMO and they do not consider it fit for human consumption.
Cattails actually produce more ethanol per acre than corn; cattails also produce more ethanol when grown in human waste, as would be produced if you were using it as an alternative to big expensive sewage treatment plants. Imagine that... a twofer!(less) -
raves +1 posted Oct 26, 2008 11:54AM GMT
Answered Drilling will reduce transportation costs first
Drill Baby Drill!!! We need to do everything and quit wondering what we should do. Jeez, right now we do not have the other technology, we do know how to drill. Why should we allow other countries to suck the oil out of the areas where we could be drilling? We drill and work on other forms of energy, could you imagine if we did that...how many people could we put to work?? Get your heads out of your butts and do something. If they had drilled six years ago when Bush wanted them to, we wouldn't be sitting around pissing and moaning about high gas prices right now. Let's do it all!!! -
raves +3 Oct 26, 2008 03:48PM GMTWe do have the technology right now! If you think we don't then you have bought into the propaganda brought to you by big oil.
The model A and Model-T Fords had a lever on the dash that allowed you to advance the timing to use either alcohol or gasoline since at the time alcohol produced by farmers was more readily available outside of town. Prohibition (by the way brought to you by Standard Oil and the WCTU) effectively squashed the agri-based fuel movement. Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and Harvey Firestone were all big proponents of the agri-chemical industry and were gearing up to produce all of the things currently produced by the petro-chemical industry. Imagine if Rockefeller hadn't wanted to eliminate his competition, where we would be right now!!! -
raves +2 Oct 27, 2008 12:50AM GMT (edited)the clean burn euro ford fiesta diesel gets 75 mpg. however,thanks to big oil,the car is not coming to the usa even though it meets all safety & epa standards.
ford builds good cars models for the eu market & sells us the junk. no wonder they are going under. people want & demand vehicles like they sell in the eu. we will never see them because government & industry special interests work againt the people. -
raves +1 posted Oct 25, 2008 11:15PM GMT (edited)
Answered None of the above
it will take on a massive effort by all. drilling,renewables,nuclear,coal & consevation of our resources. that means sacrifice from everyone as we transition from the old to the new. we must use every resource to our advantage.
that does not mean our goals cannot be met. -
raves +3 Oct 26, 2008 12:03PM GMT (edited)in israel,they already have solar powered carport rooftops that charges a built in battery ups system & stores the energy. an inverter changes battery dc to ac to charge a plug in hybrid or electric vehicle's battery pack any time,day or night. that's right,batteries charging batteries. there are new battery technolgies like composites or plasic plates that use no heavy meatals.
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Answered None of the above
I think we should explore all options at this point.