Mar 21, 2008 11:12PM GMT
Question
•
Politics - Other
DO CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS HATE THE USA?
We have a new SH that claims that is true and offers an entire littany of "facts" to support his assertions on this post:http://www.sodahead.com/question/21256/comment/1906502/
WadaUthink?
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raves +1 posted Mar 27, 2008 02:38AM GMT
Answered None of the above
I am conservative republican and I LOVE America!! Well maybe he is right, I just cannot seem to remember the last time a CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN supported and attended the church of a leader that states God ---- America, (I have a hard time writing that). -
raves +1 Mar 25, 2008 10:15PM GMTThat pretty much sums it up.
The encounter that George Bush had with the girl was completely unscripted; she lives here locally (I do to) and she just came out to see him and someone just happened to catch his attention. It was covered in the local papers with the picture shown in the video.
This happened in front of the Golden Lamb Inn, a historic Ohio landmark and a place that our family has eaten dinner dozens of times. -
raves posted Mar 23, 2008 04:15AM GMT
Answered None of the above
The Republicans and the Democrats love this nation. But they are so into there party they forget that we are one nation not two. And there fighting gets us nothing. If the parties would thank of first the people as a whole first not there party maybe we could get something done. If I had my way we would have no parties in the United States. Then we could work on other things beside Republicans or Democrats problems. -
raves posted Mar 23, 2008 02:35AM GMT
Answered He's wrong - other political persuations also love the USA
I have friends who are members of the Republican party - we argue and disagree on all sorts of political issues. We do agree on one thing, we love America, and we would do anything to protect and preserve it! -
raves posted Mar 23, 2008 02:08AM GMT
Answered He's wrong - other political persuations also love the USA
I would like to point out that it is Democrats that are pushing so hard to take away the second amendment... Right to bear arms.
Tenth amendment. Most Democrats want the U.S. Federal government to take over for the states.
Just to name a couple.
It was under a Democrat... Woodrow Wilson, that Americans lost their right to taxation without representation with the income tax.
I think that both sides have serious power trip problems and that they want to control as much of what happens in America as they can. It is the forgotten man that is getting screwed in the process. -
raves +1 -1 posted Mar 22, 2008 07:28PM GMT
Answered None of the above
I I wouldn't go so far as to say the Conservative Republicans hate America. I would say they misunderstand the Constitution; that many of them confuse their faith with the citizenship; that many confuse the symbols of allegiance with the work of citizenship. They have forgotten that many of the Founding Fathers were deists -- men who believed in spirituality but not Bible-thumping Christianity. They fail to take heed of Franklin, when he tells us that those giving up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither. They (not libertarians -- more power to them for this lack of hypocracy) want government out of our pocketbooks and into our bedrooms.
But they do this, I think, though a mistaken idea that this is how you show that you love your country. -
raves +2 Mar 22, 2008 08:28PM GMTI am not going to try and refute and 'change' your opinion. But would like to provide a link for historical research.
I can understand and agree that 'everyone' has a 'link of reference', Sometimes their 'links' are humorous and rediculous. But research is still good.
Benjamin Franklin's letter to Thomas Paine
http://www.wallbuilders.com/L...
The Founders As Christians ?
http://www.wallbuilders.com/L...
Qualifications for Public Office- Daniel Webster http://www.wallbuilders.com/L... -
raves +3 posted Mar 22, 2008 03:23PM GMT
Answered None of the above
He is wrong. One has to wonder about liberal democrats who push a socialist agenda? Are they anti-American or are they just, as I accuse them of being, adolescents? From my position the move to socialism is destroying the principles on which this country was built. -
raves -1 Mar 22, 2008 07:49PM GMTCould you give me a list of capitalist principles on which this country was built? I only ask because I don't see a whole lot of economic treatises in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, and socialism is an economic system.
Indeed, the vast majority of liberal Democrats are capitalists themselves; they just think that the Federal government has a role, even a large role, to play in regulating capitalism, so that there is some minor redistribution of income, and in providing more literally for the general welfare -- ending child labor, bringing about an eight hour work week, legitimizing unions, providing social insurance (that's Social Security), etc. Yes, many of these programs are also supported by both classical socialism and the more modern version -- democratic socialism such as that in Europe.
None of this destroys anything having to do with the democratic republican principles on which our country was founded. I fear that most of my fellow American citizens know little of what socialism really is, and therefore rail against something like dictatorial, ghastly Stalinism using the word socialism.
I'm not saying you have to like socialism; just that you should be clear what it is you dislike. And you shouldn't, above all, belittle those who thi...Could you give me a list of capitalist principles on which this country was built? I only ask because I don't see a whole lot of economic treatises in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, and socialism is an economic system.
Indeed, the vast majority of liberal Democrats are capitalists themselves; they just think that the Federal government has a role, even a large role, to play in regulating capitalism, so that there is some minor redistribution of income, and in providing more literally for the general welfare -- ending child labor, bringing about an eight hour work week, legitimizing unions, providing social insurance (that's Social Security), etc. Yes, many of these programs are also supported by both classical socialism and the more modern version -- democratic socialism such as that in Europe.
None of this destroys anything having to do with the democratic republican principles on which our country was founded. I fear that most of my fellow American citizens know little of what socialism really is, and therefore rail against something like dictatorial, ghastly Stalinism using the word socialism.
I'm not saying you have to like socialism; just that you should be clear what it is you dislike. And you shouldn't, above all, belittle those who think differently from you by calling them adolescents.
Finally, except for a very few Americans, all of us love our country most of the time -- we just see things differently from each other, and so see what that love means differently.(less) -
raves Mar 22, 2008 08:34PM GMT (edited)I quote you-- "Yes, many of these programs are also supported by both classical socialism and the more modern version -- democratic socialism such as that in Europe."
That should be enough for you to understand that changes have and are being made by those who view restriction of individual rights and responsibilities as good. I do not believe that to be a good change.
It's all about being fair. That is an adolescent view of the world. Not much is fair, nor should one expect it to be. At the best of times things break our way, others we struggle. My focus is to bring a realization that problems are solved from the bottom up. Top down government is what the founding fathers feared, in they had come from a monarchy. The people at the bottom have little or no input or impact on decisions.
Having lived inside a city imprisoned by Communism, I feel I have some understanding of the consequences of big government. And yes, I have spent time inside countries which view democratic socialism as ideal. Having spent time talking with citizens, and married to an ex-patriot, of democratic socialism, my experiences and opinions may differ from others.
Thank you for your comments. -
raves -1 Mar 22, 2008 08:50PM GMTI don't live in the social Darwinism world you seem to inhabit --I think we should care about what is fair, even if we never get there; I think we need idealism, so that we are always looking a bit beyond what we can actually accomplish, else we will try nothing. I think we are little better than animals if we don't care about the fate of our fellow humans.
And I think that when the folks at the bottom have elected the folks at the top, knowing what those elected officials say they will do, then that is government from the bottom up. If the people elect liberals, it means they want a liberal government, which means an activist government that tries to help the people help themselves.
Anyway, you do at least understand the differences between socialism and Communism -- or at least I think you do. I don't happen to agree that the horrors of Communism inevitably flow from the big government of socialism, and I think Scandinavia proves that. But this is all in the rhelm of YMMV. -
raves +1 Mar 23, 2008 02:20AM GMT"Indeed, the vast majority of liberal Democrats are capitalists themselves; they just think that the Federal government has a role, even a large role, to play in regulating capitalism, so that there is some minor redistribution of income, and in providing more literally for the general welfare -- "
They are also the ones that instituted the income tax, something that the founding fathers were staunchly against. See Woodrow Wilson.
Minor redistribution of income? Wow, the government takes, 40% FORTY PERCENT of any major corporation. I would call this major redistribution of income. Regulation of capitalism? I thought that was the job of the free market, not government. You know, build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door. Ever occur to you that perhaps the reason that we see so many corporations "cheating" on their investors ect. is because the government is dictating just how much they are allowed to "keep". Imagine how much more people could get paid if companies were allowed to keep this extra 40% and give it back to the community with lower prices or higher wages.
"Definitions of SOCIALISM on the Web:
* The core idea of socialism, in its democratic form, is that the working classes; that is, the majority, should form an extensive sy..."Indeed, the vast majority of liberal Democrats are capitalists themselves; they just think that the Federal government has a role, even a large role, to play in regulating capitalism, so that there is some minor redistribution of income, and in providing more literally for the general welfare -- "
They are also the ones that instituted the income tax, something that the founding fathers were staunchly against. See Woodrow Wilson.
Minor redistribution of income? Wow, the government takes, 40% FORTY PERCENT of any major corporation. I would call this major redistribution of income. Regulation of capitalism? I thought that was the job of the free market, not government. You know, build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door. Ever occur to you that perhaps the reason that we see so many corporations "cheating" on their investors ect. is because the government is dictating just how much they are allowed to "keep". Imagine how much more people could get paid if companies were allowed to keep this extra 40% and give it back to the community with lower prices or higher wages.
"Definitions of SOCIALISM on the Web:
* The core idea of socialism, in its democratic form, is that the working classes; that is, the majority, should form an extensive system of ...
www.eubios.info/biodict.htm
* An "economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class. ...
www2.truman.edu/~marc/resourc...
* An economic system in which the basic means of production are primarily owned and controlled collectively, usually by government under some system of central planning.
countrystudies.us/united-stat...
* adherence to the theory social organization which believes the proprietorship and the authority of the means of production, capital, land, etc. should belong to the entire community. The Socialist Party in London's day was considered a respectable alternate political party. ...
london.sonoma.edu/Essays/glos...
* A system based on public ownership of the means of production and distribution of wealth.
www.bl.uk/learning/histcitize...
* The view that the government should own and control major industries"
Even the last one should scare the bejesus out of everyone. Government should own and control major industries. This is the exact opposite of what the founding fathers set up in the constitution.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Where in the preamble does it say that the government is to own and control major industries? Or anywhere else in the Constitution.
"Definitions of liberty on the Web:
* autonomy: immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence
* freedom of choice; "liberty of opinion"; "liberty of worship"; "liberty--perfect liberty--to think or feel or do just as one pleases"; "at liberty to choose whatever occupation one wishes"
* personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression "
Immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority, this is the exact opposite of socialism.(less) -
raves +3 posted Mar 22, 2008 09:13AM GMT
Answered He's wrong - other political persuations also love the USA
I see the citing that he claims makes for "hate the U.S.A."
I wonder what church are they forcing me to go to?
I do not attend any church, I do not agree with Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, what other groups are they funding FOR THE FIRST TIME, that they would not have funded years before, religious organizations have been able to get tax exemption and funding in the past as charitable organizations...
In the issue of State's Rights, EVERY big government proponent looks to destroy state's rights, republican and democrat...
Democrats in the love of the country tax us to pay for international programs and welfare that illegal immigrants benefit from....
Read the Constitution, the taxes levied, Welfare, Social Security, Universal Health Care are all unconstitutional... So it is not only the Neo-Cons but the Liberals that hate America...
The Real Conservatives, the Constitutionalists love America...
Who Voted For the Patriot Act?
These are the people that Hate America if anyone does...
YEAs ---98
Akaka (D-HI)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Campbell (R-CO)
C...I see the citing that he claims makes for "hate the U.S.A."
I wonder what church are they forcing me to go to?
I do not attend any church, I do not agree with Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, what other groups are they funding FOR THE FIRST TIME, that they would not have funded years before, religious organizations have been able to get tax exemption and funding in the past as charitable organizations...
In the issue of State's Rights, EVERY big government proponent looks to destroy state's rights, republican and democrat...
Democrats in the love of the country tax us to pay for international programs and welfare that illegal immigrants benefit from....
Read the Constitution, the taxes levied, Welfare, Social Security, Universal Health Care are all unconstitutional... So it is not only the Neo-Cons but the Liberals that hate America...
The Real Conservatives, the Constitutionalists love America...
Who Voted For the Patriot Act?
These are the people that Hate America if anyone does...
YEAs ---98
Akaka (D-HI)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
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Young (FL)(less) -
raves +1 -1 Mar 22, 2008 07:56PM GMTYup -- none of those folks should have voted for something as against the Constitution as is the Patriot Act. But they thought they were doing the right thing for the American People when they passed it. We have these stupid waves of what I think of as falsely-directed or falsely-created patriotism -- personally, I think the first one of those resulted in the Alien and Sedition Acts, when we were barely a country.
That's not to say it doesn't make me angry; it just puts the anger into perspective. -
raves Mar 22, 2008 08:26PM GMTLet's just agree to disagree. I'm on the left, not the right; I'm also not an anarchist who thinks we would function best with almost no government, nor so idealistic as to think we could do that.
But I like those who appreciate our civil liberties, even if we disagree on other issues. -
raves +2
Answered He's right - only Democrats love the USA
Remember all the times leftists accused the Republicans of calling them 'un-patriotic'? If you want to know what liberals are up to, just check what they are accusing conservatives of doing.